|  Author | Topic: Wayne Simon Transferring (Read 1,910 times) |
notjuanjones
Jeff Jones
member is offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Gender: Male 
Posts: 339
|  | Wayne Simon Transferring
« Thread Started on Apr 10, 2012, 10:45am » | ![[Quote]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/quote.png "[Quote]") |
Looking at Jeff Goodman's transfer list on CBSsports.com this morning, and Wayne Simon's name is on it. And it is true. He's leaving. Can't say I'm shocked, as he lost his minutes down the stretch last season to Joe Hill. So we now REALLY need a '12 point guard to back up Danny and we REALLY need to sign a '13 guard to replace Danny after next season. Unfortunate end for WSII, who I thought had great potential coming out of Gene Pingatore's program in Chicago. Who knows why it didn't work, but the bottom line is another recruiting strikeout.
| |
|
Bottom Line Boots
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #1 on Apr 10, 2012, 4:30pm » | |
It would be interesting to know more about the why's of the transfer. I did not understand the Joe Hill substitution late in the season, so I would guess Wayne and JJ were not on the same page. what that page is i have no clue. He certainly had the quickness that Munoz so badly lacks.
But i do know first hand that I sat with JJ 3 years ago when we were discussing the incoming recruits- before WS started his freshman year, and JJ said that Coach Burke had him make a hurry up unplanned flight from Florida to a tournament in IL to see WS, and after watching him from the stands, he said he turned to Burke and asked "Why is this kid still available, what am i missing"?
One would think JJ who was a star point guard, could identify and recruit top point guards. Other than Derrick Mercer, he has come up way short (no pun intended). If this incoming class does not make a big and immediate contribution then it is time for a change. Elcano and Reed practice your footwork and get in the weight room.
| |
|
Classof83
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #2 on Apr 14, 2012, 10:48am » | |
I have sometimes disagreed with things the coaching staff has done, and I have sometimes been critical of the results. But let's be fair. We are very fortunate to have Jeff Jones leading this program. He has a very impressive record. He runs a clean program. We can all be very proud of everyone involved with the team. If we give Jones resources well beyond our Patriot League competitors, and he does not consistently bring home the title and a trip to the NCAAs then we can talk about a regime change. But unless and until that happens, let's root for these guys, support what they're doing, and enjoy the show.
| |
|
Bottom Line Boots
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #3 on Apr 14, 2012, 8:47pm » | |
83- I agree with you 100% about supporting the program and that Coach Jones has done a good job at AU. I point out that is old news and we have been out of the PL Championship game for 3 years now, and most likely a 4th coming up Hope not, but that seems to be on the horizon unless these freshman and our upper clansmen surprise us.
Do you want the 3rd best surgeon operating on you? Send your kids to the 3rd best school ? We have gotten our butts kicked in recruiting over the past 3 years. College athletics is competitive. This is our showcase sport. We are 3rd best the last 3 years. That is not good enough. Brett Reed and Dave Paulsen have done a better job than our coach over that period of time.
| |
|
steve
Kermit Washington
member is offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 139
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #4 on Apr 15, 2012, 12:39am » | |
No arguing that this year was a great year for the top 2 teams in the PL with the rest of the league anemic. But don't get carried away. AU was better than Lehigh the year before. AU was number 2 in the PL and Lehigh was 4.
Obviously the PG position has been a problem for AU post-Mercer. Labels aside, next year we will see Blake handling the ball a lot with Danny stationed outside ready to knock down 3s or at least keeping defenses honest. It's at forward where we fall apart unless players like Schoof and Fisher step up their game.
| |
|
au11
Eagle
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 32
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #5 on Apr 15, 2012, 8:31am » | |
83 is right, you guys are too hard on JJ. But then again, he and I saw the program go from ECC contentder that beat Georgetown, to doormat of the CAA and it happened fast. Maybe he and I are just happy to win 20. That said, I do agree that we should not be losing recruits to schools like Lehigh, that makes no sense to me, but admittedly I'm stuck in the past. Last thing, watch Kyle Kraeger next year. If he is allowed to start he will lead the team in scoring and be the surprise of the league.
| |
|
notjuanjones
Jeff Jones
member is offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 339
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #6 on Apr 15, 2012, 2:36pm » | |
I'm not down at all on JJ, nor am I advocating he be fired if we don't win or get to the PL final next year. But I do think he and the staff have to pick it up where recruiting is concerned. Our last three classes have been below average. Maybe Kager comes on next year (and I still think Schoof is going to be a good player), but BLB is right that we've been beaten the last three years by BU and LU in recruiting. I do think you have to work in the outlier factor with McCollum and Muscala; we normally don't have players that good in the PL. But even if you took them out of the equation, I'd rather have Ayers and Willman and Johnson (BU), or McKnight and Knutson and Adams (LU), than our four-year guys the last three years.
One small quibble, au11: I wouldn't say we were the "doormat" of the CAA. In our 16 seasons in that conference we finished third or second five times, and fourth or fifth three times. So, basically, we were an average to above average team half the time, and bad the other half. Not good, but not a doormat. But speaking for myself only on this one.
| |
|
au11
Eagle
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 32
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #7 on Apr 15, 2012, 6:23pm » | |
Yes, you're right. What I meant to say, and this is from memory only, is that our first years in the CAA were horrible. Things certainly improved, but we were a bit of a joke at the beginning. And that was immediately after AU had two guys go in the NBA draft.
| |
|
steve
Kermit Washington
member is offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 139
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #8 on Apr 15, 2012, 8:06pm » | |
Most of the Colonial was state universities with more resources than AU, plus Richmond which had that great tradition with Dick Tarrant. It's silly to compare that to ECC or PL.
AU had a miserable last year in the ECC. That team was 6-22. Imagine stepping up to the Colonial (It was called ECAC South back then) with a team that did horribly against the non-scholarship programs of the ECC. Of course they got creamed. We stepped up from Rider to Richmond.
Anyway, this is all ancient history and has nothing to do with AU now, except that AU has ALWAYS relied on transfers- ECC, CAA or PL- to be among the team leaders. Nickens, Ast, Draper, Rodriguez, Moldoveanu, Hinkle. The Mercer-Carr-Gilmore teams were the unusual exception, and only because those players grew exponentially after their sophomore seasons. It may never happen again at AU. and it took every once of their strength to win the PL even then, just barely squeaking by Holy Cross (first NCAA team) and Army (second NCAA team).
| |
|
Bottom Line Boots
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #9 on Apr 16, 2012, 6:50pm » | |
Steve- you make your own case. what all those transfer "stars" have in common is - THEY NEVER WON ANYTHING. There is no excuse for not doing it the right way and tougher way by out recruiting your opponent.
You do not build a program on transfers.
| |
|
Bill
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #10 on Apr 16, 2012, 7:01pm » | |
BLB. Your lack of basketball IQ never ceases to amaze me. The only thing that has separated us from Bucknell and Lehigh the last two years are Muscala and McCollum. They are unique recruits to the Patriot league. Had they not been in the league the last two years we would have won one possibly championships.
| |
|
notjuanjones
Jeff Jones
member is offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 339
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #11 on Apr 16, 2012, 11:02pm » | |
We're getting a little far afield here, but just for the sake of accuracy...
Steve: I'm fairly certain you know the reason the 83-84 team went 6-22 might have had a little to do with the fact that it lost almost all of its top players--Austin, Sloane, Jones and Nickens--from the '82-'83 team that went 20-10, won the ECC regular season title and lost by two to LaSalle in the ECC final, and that the '83-'84 team was "built" around Ferdie Aunon. Again, we did okay in the CAA. Not great, but not awful. Our '90 team was as good as anyone in the conference; we lost a double-overtime game in the semis to Richmond at Richmond on a last-second prayer by Curtis Blair. But, as you said, that's all ancient history.
I'm not speaking for BLB, but the point he's made over and over is that we came to the PL not just because it was a better place for the resources we could spend on athletics, but because we expected to dominate the conference. We have not done that--in basketball. We have done it in volleyball; Barry Goldberg's teams have won 10 PL titles in 11 seasons, and are 20-0 in tournament play at Bender. We have done it in field hockey, where Steve Jennings's teams have won eight PL tournament titles in 12 seasons, and made the Elite Eight of that sport's NCAA tournament twice.
I do not mind using transfers to supplement what we already have. I do mind depending on transfers to be good at all. Nickens became a very good player but we already had Austin, Sloane and Jones here to form the core of our team. Draper (and Darryl Holmes) were wonderful additions to a core of four-year recruits, most notably Brock Wortman at the point. (Once again, I am simply dumbfounded by your inclusion of Christian Ast, whose years here produced absolutely nothing of importance.)
If the Mercer-Carr-Gilmore (Nichols-Lay-Simon etc.) teams were the most successful in our PL history, why wouldn't we seek to re-create that? You keep saying the players grew after their sophomore seasons, as if there was some mysterious magic potion involved. They grew together because they had played together for parts of two years before they became upperclassmen! Mercer started as a freshman. Gilmore and Nichols got increased time as sophs. Carr came on as a junior once he bought in to playing defense (or at least trying to play defense) the way JJ wanted. There was no once-in-a-lifetime miracle at work: good players played together, were coached up, and became a terrific unit their last two seasons. That's what happens every year at countless colleges around the country. You recruit a group that can grow together and has a chance to win big when it matures. That's what BU and LU did.
Yes, Bill, and for the millionth time, we know Muscala and McCollum are special players. But if you really think they're the only reason we've fallen behind, you aren't watching the same game I'm watching. Ayers and Willman and Johnson are better than our players at those positions. Period. So are McKnight and Adams. (I'll allow that Tony showed himself to be Knutson's equal in the middle this year--when he stayed out of foul trouble.) LU and BU have recruited teams to surround their superstar players. We have to do the same if we're going to compete--even after Muscala and McColllum leave.
I have hope for this incoming class, and I think we'll likely add a couple more players during the spring signing period. I continue to believe we have the best coach in the PL. He does more with less than anyone in this conference, and I'm proud of what JJ has accomplished here. I will never say winning 20 games is meaningless in any season. But I want to win championships, not moral victories. And I don't think it's too much to ask that we recruit on par, or better, with Bucknell and Lehigh. They are not Duke and Carolina.
Again, speaking for myself here, and don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Just my opinion.
| |
|
Guest
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #12 on Apr 17, 2012, 12:04am » | |
Let's not forget the impact that transfers had on the 07-08 team. Team had 7 new players that year, only 2 of which were freshmen. 4 were juco transfers. Also, don't discount the impact that Cornelio Guibunda (transferred from Georgetown) had late in the season. Was crucial in getting past Meister/Keister from Holy Cross.
| |
|
Bottom Line Boots
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #13 on Apr 17, 2012, 9:08pm » | |
Thank you NJJ for repeating what i have been saying. Perhaps the best factoid i think you or someone else pointed out- we have not had a first or even 2nd team PL player who was recruited as a four year player since the Mercer Carr year.
What does that say about our recruiting expertise in the past 7 or so years? What is your answer to that Bill ? Why haven't we recruited a four year Muscala or McCollum type player ? We haven't been close since the Mercer class. Our coaches have not identified top prospects as good as the competition.
I do not think that JJ has to do more with less. He is extremely satisfied with the recruiting budget he has, and what he has is right in line with the other PL teams. He told me that. He has Neil Kerwin 100% in his corner. Let's hope this new recruiting class puts the recent failures in distant memory
| |
|
Tenley
Guest
| | Re: Wayne Simon Transferring
« Reply #14 on Apr 18, 2012, 6:32pm » | |
I don't think that is accurate as to no all PL freshman recruits. Wasn't Lumpkins 2nd team all PL his jr. year. He also would have likely been 1st team his senior yr. It isn't JJ's fault he left. Last year's team would have very good with Charles and him and Troy.
| |
| |
|
![[Search This Thread]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/search2.png "[Search This Thread]")
![[Reply]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/reply.png "[Reply]")
![[Share Topic]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/share.png "[Share Topic]")
![[Print]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/print.png "[Print]")
Logged